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September 22, 2007

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DLE

I'm still holding out for a Thompson Chain ESV, so what kind of nut does that make me? (Like Kirkbride is going to play nice with another publisher after their Zondervan debacle.) And yes, I'd like a single column format, too, if they could find a way to do that with the Thompson notes.

J. Mark Bertrand

If you're a nut, Dan, you're my kind of nut. I've never used a Thompson Chain Reference much, but I've known so many people who rave about them that my curiosity is high. But just to see your move and raise you, I'm going to say we need a Thompson Chain ESV bound in goatskin with five ribbons!

DLE

Mark,

I've just found the Thompson Chain to be invaluable for everything. It's great for preparing Bible studies because you can chain right through any topic. It's great for Bible studies because if someone brings up a point and you need to find verses to support/refute it, the Chain system helps you locate those (and similar) verses quickly. The back of it is loaded with helps, too.

I used to be a Bible salesman, so I know exactly what you're talking about on this blog. (Especially when it comes to bonded leather!) I've handled about every kind of Bible there is, and I've not found a reference Bible that compares with the Thompson Chain. It's the main reason I don't keep a print ESV in my house; Crossways' hasn't come out with a reference Bible that can touch the Thompson--not even close. (My main reference Bible is an old Thompson Chain NIV, the first Kirkbride ever produced, circa 1982. Hardbound, too, and it's still in one piece! Amazing.)

No, the current incarnation of the Thompson isn't perfect (I don't like the font choices), but I think everyone should own one. I don't say that about just any Bible, either.

To switch topics, the best-made Bible I ever handled was an original Zondervan NIV Study Bible circa 1987. They had a version in Moroccan goatskin that retailed for about $120. The binding on that thing was amazingly supple, and nothing I've held before or after has had the feel of that Bible.

I won a sales contest in Bibles one year and the top Bible awarded was an NIV Study Bible in top grain. But because I had gone so far over the limit on sales, I asked Zondervan if they'd send me the Moroccan leather--and they did! So I owned that Bible myself.

But in one of "those" kinds of stories, I encountered a man who was searching for Christ. We worked together and I was leaving to work elsewhere. On my last day, he asked me, "Where can I find a Bible that can help me understand what I'm reading?" I thought about it and gave him that goatskin NIV Bible. I knew he had no idea how much it cost, but I pray it proved infinitely more valuable to him than what I might have received from it.

J. Mark Bertrand

You used to be a Bible salesman, Dan? I had no idea. I imagine you have a lot of interesting stories and insight into the subject. You're welcome to share them here any time!

DLE

Mark,

I used to be the Bible & book buyer for two Christian bookstores, one independent and one a chain. In both situations, I was the go-to guy on Bibles, probably selling 90 percent of the Bibles that went out the door.

That was the 1980s, and things are much different today. Stores now have almost no say what Bibles they receive, but back then, I had to make most of the purchasing decisions, even in the chain. This was also before the explosion of varieties of specialty Bibles and house-only translations.

But I knew my stuff. Today, you walk into the average chain Christian bookstore and the Bible knowledge is abysmal. Stores pay their employees minimum wage, so there's no incentive for the staff to learn anything about the books or Bibles because, like the customers, they're just passing through.

I don't go into many Christian bookstores anymore, but when I must, it pains me to overhear conversation between staff and customers. Customers get wrong information, especially about Bibles, well...almost religiously. Staff can't explain bindings, translations, anything.

That's one reason this new blog of yours is so desperately needed. Thanks for making it available.

DLE

One story:

Thomas Nelson at one time produced what amounted to a photocopied edition of the genuine 1611 King James. I don't know the exact variation they used (since we both know that the original printers made fixes in each print run), but it included the one thing I always wanted to have on hand: the initial translators notes and introduction.

One day, I had a young woman of about 22 come into the store. Her face was just glowing. She came up to me back by the Bibles section and told me she had just become a believer and wanted to buy her first Bible. You could feel the preciousness of that moment in the air.

At the time, one of the best options available was the new NIV Study Bible. I considered her situation and thought this would be a great choice for her.

But as I was handing her the Bible to peruse, this mean-faced little man who looked like he was about to boil over came storming up to us and started yelling that I was trying to sell her one of those "perverted Bibles" and that only the KJV was suitable for use. This guy was literally frothing at the mouth telling us that no other translation was acceptable, and that true Christians would never consider using anything but the KJV.

You know where this is going.

I asked him if he believed that the translators of the Authorized Version believed the same as he did. He said yes. I asked him if he would reconsider his position if it turned out the translators disagreed with him. He said he would, but then added that they didn't.

So I pulled out the Nelson 1611 KJV and asked him to read out loud a paragraph from the original translators' introduction. He started to read, but when he got to the passage in question where the translators of the KJV recommend using multiple translations of the Bible to understand it fully, he shut up, handed me the Bible, and without a word stormed out of the store.

Meanwhile, this poor woman was horribly shaken by the whole thing; the light had gone out of her face. She bought the NIV Study Bible and thanked me quietly.

I will never forget that incident as long as I live.

J. Mark Bertrand

Several of my Cambridge KJVs re-print "The Translators to the Reader" along with the dedicatory epistle at the front of the book, and I've often thought that if the practice were more widespread the so-called King James Only movement would never have gotten off the ground!

Jesus Saenz

Goatskin? Why is that Cambridge, as far as I know, is the only Bible publisher to use goatskin? Goatskin feels better than calfskin, looks better and even smells better. I recently had a Bible re-bound in goatskin because the genuine leather was more akin to plastic than to anything that was ever alive. Since buying my first "premium" Bible, I have a much deeper appreciation for fine leather and bindings.

I have recently switched to using the ESV as my primary translation. I have five different Bibles in the ESV and am really looking forward to this edition as well. I am well pleased with the quality of the Crossway books, though I did hear of sub-par quality from their early editions. The Single Column Reference, Deluxe Heirloom and Thinline Cordovan in calfskin are in the same league with the Cambridge and are probably only out classed by Allan's ESV. This Personal Size ESV will not be available in calfskin... yet. That doesn't matter as I will definitely buy one of these first offerings. I am becoming a real fan of the single column format and am glad this will be paragraphed as well.

If anybody reading this has any juice with "The Man" at Crossway, would you mind bending "The Man's" ear and have him make this format in at least a 10 point font, with margins of at least an inch, print it on the 27 lb. paper of the Deluxe Heirloom, sew the bindings and then cover it in goatskin not calfskin... Please?

matt

As soon as the Personal Reference ESV comes out I am sending it to Mechling book bindery...man that will be nice.

matt

Just have to decide on what color goatskin to use...and my wife wonders why I cannot have "normal hobbies"... :)

matt blair

Hi Mark.

I'm excited about the release of this edition and thank you for bringing it to our attention.

I see it will be available in 4 covers and one is "genuine leather" at 44 bucks. What is your opinion on this cover?

Thanks!
Matt

J. Mark Bertrand

I haven't seen any of the covers in person yet, but I'm hoping to do a review once they're out. To me, this seems like a good candidate for rebinding.

matt blair

I look forward to your review. I've been waiting for an ESV in this size and like you, have found my compact to be a wee bit too compact.

This will be the perfect size for my new daily use bible...C'MON END OF JANUARY!!!

:)

John

So I see that the Personal Size Reference Bible has been pushed back to a release of Feb. 29. I know they publish your stuff Mark, but I'm really getting sick and tired of Crossway. This constant pushing back of release dates is a repeating pattern. I'm also sick of their poor quality Bibles, but everybody has beat down Crossway's door with that issue. CAN SOMEBODY ELSE PLEASE TAKE OVER PUBLICATION OF THE ESV????? DO YOU HEAR ME CROSSWAY?????????

Jesus Saenz

I wrote an open letter to Crossway about publishing this edition in premium leather with a sewn binding. If you would like to see this done as well, please come by my blog and leave a comment, as a petition of sorts.

http://souldesaenz.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/an-open-letter-to-crossway/

thank you

Linda Z

I also would like to have a ESV with premium leather and a sewn binding. My current ESV has been losing pages since the day I purchased it--6 years ago. I have been waiting for a Thompson Chain ESV but it sounds like that may never happen. The Thompson Chain is my absolute favorite study bible...it's like having several reference books in one, and the ESV would be great with it.

matt

Received my Personal ESV today and I must say I am pleased.

-The format is nice (though I am going to have to get used to the single column in small print...since more words spread across the page than I am used to)
-the size is very handy (almost thinline thin)
-smyth-sewn (though a little stiff)
-font is nice and readable for a portable ed.
-paper has slight bleed through but is a good step up from past editions.

I think it makes a good "on the go" edition, and I especially like how the cross references are in the gutter so the actual text is in the center of the page and not curving into the spine.

Jesus Saenz

Mine is en route, I will review it as soon as i get it in! looking forward to this one. I bought the genuine leather edition just in case i do decide to have it rebound!

threegirldad

"-the size is very handy (almost thinline thin)"

According to an email reply from a Crossway rep, it measures between 1" and 1 1/8" in thickness.

Hal Watson

Love this blog. I'm new to blogs, and not very computer-savvy. I have tried to leave a comment before, but was unable, got some kind of message about disabling something to do with my browser. Huh? Trying again.

Grew up on KJV. GNB opened my eyes in 1972; shortly thereafter was given the new (at the time) NASB. Used it almost exclusively for many years. I still have a bonded-leather Nelson Open Bible personal-size NASB that remains intact in all its pages to this day. The bonded leather is cracked and separating in places (I glued it), but the bible hangs on my hands like water, as you have described some premium-quality current offerings. It remains my favorite bible because of this feel, and I was amazed to read that you can buy a new bible that shares this tactile feel of the bible draping over the hand like that (I thought only age would accomlish this attribute). Will ask my wife for an Allan for my birthday.

I want an ESV single-column, paragraph bible. I wish they would delete the concordance and make the font bigger and darker, though I haven't seen Crossway's offering. Just going by the other ESV's I have (a hardback single column verse, and a trutone double-column). The print seems a bit too faint to me, and that is just as important - if not more so- in readability as sheer font size. I really like the ESV translation; it retains its kinship with the wycliffe/tyndale/av tradition, but with modern language and is less liberal than the rsv; I won't buy the nrsv, because I feel they went a little too far with their 'gender-inclusive' language. The ESV translators did a good job in achieving their goals.

Found your blog after bible-shopping for a premium-quality, single-column, paragraph format bible. Naively went to mall and local Lifeway thinking I would have many choices. Did not find a single offering in stock anywhere, in any version. Why do bible publishers not offer their bibles in standard english format? I left a note with Crossway asking the same thing; the English Standard Bible in Standard English Format - finally, the word standard would actually mean something.

Oops. Sorry about the length. Now, where is the bible I want?

Hal Watson

threegirldad? I don't know where that came from.

Hal Watson

duh, I see....the name comes after the post....is there a blogging for dummies book?

Pastor Aaron Gravett

Good blog spot - nice to be able to talk about Bibles and the quality of them without arguing over versions

threegirldad

I want an ESV single-column, paragraph bible. I wish they would delete the concordance and make the font bigger and darker.

Same here. What I hope to see someday is something like a text-only version of the ESVSB, trimmed to, say, 5 1/2 x 8.

Good blog spot - nice to be able to talk about Bibles and the quality of them without arguing over versions

Must be a newcomer. ;-)

Gary Brown

I too would like a text only version of the ESVSB but without trimming it down. A notetakers version if you will. That would be great! Yes I know the that there is the journalling version but thats double column I think.

H Jim

A quote from ye-old J. Mark Bertrand Post, "let's raise $50K now:"
"My dream setting: single-column; wide margins (and generous inner margins so no text curves into the gutter), references on the inner edge (or maybe the outer); verse numbers in gray, thin text instead of bold, black; black-letter. The picture here illustrates a crude mock-up of the idea."
Wow, Mark. I guess you must wield some influence over at Crossway. I think I'd say that pretty well describes the ESVPSR to a tee!
Or, should I ask, where did you get the $50K? lol.

Gordon

That NiV Thompson-Chain from about 1986 is burned in my brain, verse positions, page layouts. Then they revised and changed everything. Anyone know where I can get an original?

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  • J. Mark Bertrand is the author of Back on Murder, Pattern of Wounds, and the forthcoming Nothing to Hide, crime novels featuring Houston homicide detective Roland March. He has an MFA in Creative Writing from the University of Houston and lived in the city for fifteen years. After one hurricane too many, he and his wife moved to South Dakota. Mark has been arrested for a crime he didn't commit, was the foreman of a hung jury in Houston, and after relocating served on the jury that acquitted Vinnie Jones of assault. In 1972, he won an honorable mention in a child modeling contest, but pursued writing instead.

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