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December 02, 2008

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Peter M. Lopez

Amen! I love fountain pens, and I made the mistake (ONCE) of using one in a Bible. You would have thought it was a permanent marker with all of the bleedthrough. I've been forced to use gel pens (because you can't see underlinings from a ballpoint). Enough of my rant... Again, amen!

Jeff Seymour

It's my belief that this whole "bleedthrough" controversy is a non-issue. Here's why I think this way. I have a dozen or so bibles and every one of them, without exception, has some degree of this phenomenon. Even a 1927 Dickson New Indexed Bible has some bleedthrough. I never noticed this or considered it a dilemma until I started reading this blog! If when you are reading your bible, you concentrate on the text on the page, you likely won't notice anything. I know that I don't regardless of amount or severity of this "problem". It's only when we "look" at our bibles and not read and study them that we see problems. Bible paper is by nature very thin but very strong. If we want the advantages of thin bibles with strong, lasting paper, we have to get past this petty habit we have of picking them apart. If they're well constructed of the highest quality materials, we should be satisfied.

Matthew

I agree and feel your angst Mark.

When I purchased my calfskin ESV Thinline, the first thing I noticed was how I could read Genesis while the book was opened to Revelation. :)

....for the extra $, I'd rather have a thicker book and less opaque pages.

David Doyle

Mark,

I remember growing up that the mark of a "fine leather Bible," one that we paid a lot of money for, was the bleedthrough. If it had thin paper and you could see text from another page, then it must be worth having. Only high quality Bibles had "Bible Paper" (and we pronounced it like it was to be capitalized!)

John Meza

I'm sorry Jeff but bleed-through is definitely NOT a "non-issue". When the paper is so thin that when you underline a word on one side of the page you simultaneously make it look like you just crossed out a word on the other side, you have a problem. The same can be said of highlighting. I noticed too late while highlighting a passage that I was tinting the other side of the page. It's so bad that a couple of times, while reading my Bible, I have stopped and wondered why I highlighted something mid-sentence/verse only to turn the page and discover the verse that I actually meant to highlight.

Yes sir, there are issues with paper quality. It does affect the reading, studying & enjoyment of God's Word when you're trying to figure out what a word is on the printed page.

Jeff Seymour

John, If your highlighting is bleeding through, you're maybe using the wrong markers. Special ones are made just for bible marking, and they do a very good job. I personally don't mark my bibles because I use many translations and find that notebooks do a great job. If I have my notes in a notebook, it doesn't matter what bible I have. I do have little notations in all of my bibles, but not extensive notes. It's just what works for me, and bleedthrough is a non-issue with me. Buy the best bibles and you get the best paper. If you buy a $20 bible, don't complain about the paper or ghosting.

Ben

Jeff, I disagree, mate.

I'm not concerned with bleed through from marking my Bible, but just the 'ghosting', or whatever you want to call it, from the text on the other side of the page (and the facing page, and the other side of the facing page, in some cases).

I bought an RL Allan ESV1, the new one that came out recently, and I had to return it after using it for a couple of days, because the ghosting was so bad. I compared several portions of the text with the 'old' ESV2 (with the first edition of ESV text), and a Cambridge NIV I own, and they were worlds apart.

It's not an aesthetic thing. If your eyes have difficulty tracking, or your brain has to work harder to identify words (even though you don't notice this is happening), reading speed drops, you encounter reading fatique sooner, and comprehension suffers.

To say that all Bibles suffer from bleed through or ghosting is stating the obvious. The issue is how severe it is, which I think is caused by a number of factors, including the thickness of the paper (obviously), the density of the print ink, and the colour of the paper (bright white to very off white or grey).

Jeff Seymour

I GIVE UP! I obviously am not seeing what the rest of you are. Yes, there is ghosting in every single bible that I own, but I must have an extremely high tolerance level for it. As I stated before, I have every manner of bible and this was never even an issue with me(and still isn't), until I read this blog. Ben, I have a new Allan ESV1 in black goatskin that I ordered in June and recieved in October. I compared it with my Crossway Classic Reference and other than maybe a tad darker font in the Crossway, they both have about the same ghosting. I never considered this something that I would return a bible for. In fact, I recall having returned only one bible in my life. It was an NASB published by Moody Press(pre-Ryrie)in 1982. It had whole gobs of text missing in the O.T. as if someone had laid something on the page as it was being printed. I guess Ihave been lucky, but I have never bought inexpensive bibles except the Crossway in genuine? leather. It, at least, is Smythe-sewn.

Jules

One of my biggest problems/setbacks in buying Bibles is the paper quality. I really dislike the thin and translucent papers that Bibles nowadays offer. I currently own an NIV gift Bible which has the best quality paper I've ever seen in Bibles. Now I want to switch to an ESV but alas, I can't find the same kind of paper and so I am still waiting for a variation of the ESV with better paper... I really hope that the publishers will print Bibles on better quality paper in the future...

chris

NASB Large Print Ultrathin Reference Bible has the cleanest non-bleeding paper i've ever seen. anybody have any other suggestions?

Frank

I agree;today's Bible paper seems to be of lower quality. But, I wonder about the ink publishers are using, as well. I bought a New Living Translation - the Premium Slimline Reference Edition, in calfskin. Tyndale only published the edition with red letter. The print/ink is so bad, in the Gospel According to Mark, that the pages have a pink tint!! I sent it back to Tyndale, they examined it - agreed that it had a pink tint - and then, sent it back to me. They could not find one to replace it with that did not have the same tint!! It sits on the shelf.

Brian

I have had some Bibles with "too much" ghosting, but they were still readable. My bigger pet peeve is bibles with smooth shiny paper that reflects overhead light and can make the text impossible to read unless you shift the book. The biggest offender I own is the Reformation Study Bible. It has a special gift for catching the glare of florescent overhead lights.

I assume it is the paper, but as someone above said, it could also be the ink that creates the reflection.

Dave

I have to agree with Chris that the NASB Large Print Ultrathin Reference Bible is one of the best examples of quality printing. Highly legible and the paper is substantial. Ultrathin doesn't really apply, as there is some thickness to the book, but I just think of it as a full size, normal thickness Bible that is an excellent read. I wish other translations were available in an identical format.

Kathy

Foundation Publications uses some of the nicest paper I have seen. I have the NASB Side Column Reference (the older one printed in the USA) and the paper is beautiful; smooth, white and very opaque. The print is bold too, and yet there is almost no ghosting. I have heard, however, that these are now printed in China and the paper is not as nice.

The In Touch Ministries NASB comes in a close second; I have not seen the Ultra Thin NASB.

Stan McCullars

I own the NASB Side Column Reference and the NASB Large Print Ultrathin Reference Bible and I agree that the paper and ink are excellent. I wish all Bibles could be so easy to read. Unlike Brian, I find the Reformation Study Bible very readable. Perhaps it's the lighting.

Jan  sprucewolf@aol.com

Great site to pose my question. I even worked in a bible book store three years and have never resolved this. I need a giant print bible that is DARK ink. I have searched online again and again to no avail. I have two very old very worn NASB bibles that has perfect size and darkness of type and would so like to have it in the KJV. Does anyone know a particular bible that has dark ink and large or giant print type? Email me if you would.

DavidT

Jan, I have a beautiful KJV bible from LEWIS BIBLE BINDERY. Giant print, text only, dark print, black text, beautiful calfskin leather, very well made. It is not cheap at about 150 bucks. (Actually mine is thumb indexed and cost even a little more). But it was worth every penny. You can get see it direct at lewis bibles website here
http://www.lewisbibles.com/stories/storyReader$7
Or from KJV Store
http://www.thekjvstore.com/product_list.php?sid=3a07d1407716d98b0e1a63a51104e122&mcid=1
I only wish I could get a bible like this in the NASB. I have tried several differant giant print editions of the NASB and they all suffer from either faint and inconsistant print, cheap paper, poor binding, or all of the above.
This Lewis bible hits it out of the park in every way.

mike smith

Great commits everyone, there is one issue that the binder of my first rebinding in 1981 always insisted on and that was the not using ribbons in the Bibles for the following reasons:
1. the older ribbins bleed their dye on to the paper after a time because of the use of acid in thre dye. I am not sure if the newer ribbons along with the paper quality is changed that, since upto my Allan's Bible purchases I always removed the ribbons from any New Bible.
2. Sometime the ribbon tear the paper if the pages are not moved carefully.
I developed a tear in my Allan's calfskin NIV ref Bible but was easy to repair ( see info on this blog) so I am not going to move the pages the way I did using the Bible @ the last funeral!

steve white

The best paper I have seen is on a Bible I bought 42 years ago. It was an Oxford Bible in genuine morrocco (looks like goatskin) that has only a little cracking at the corners even today--the middle of the cover is flexible as new! But the paper was 100% rag and is still white, white. It is heavy enough that there is no seethrough, but ink pens will sure bleed through. It even has a little "new smell" in Ecclesiastes and others little visited places (shame, I know). I cannot find this kind of paper these days, but it sure has lasted well.

Kenneth Dismukes

Bleedthrough or ghosting has never been an issue or problem for me. I can see that it's there, but it doesn't jump out at me or affect my ability to read the Bible.

My pet peeve about almost all Bibles, even the most expensive ones, is that some pages are printed more faintly than others. I don't notice this much in other books, but just Bibles.

My R.L. Allan Clarendon probably comes closest to my ideal in terms of quality in a Bible both for binding and print quality (it is by far the ultimate for the binding, it's Highland goatskin, full yapp). Two other ones I bought there (Blackface and Clarendon) have some pages printed more faintly than others. The Clarendon does have the bleedthrough as shown in the top of your article, but I never even noticed it before I read your article.

Bill Frank

A sheet of white paper will block ghosting from the page(s) behind it, but won't do anything about ghosts from the text on the back side of the page you're reading. Try black paper instead - it swallows up the text on the back side, but plenty of contrast still remains for easy reading of the front side.

Black paper backing also prevents ghosts in photocopies and scans.

John

The quality of Bible paper went away in the 1970's. During that time, laws changed affecting paper formulas due to health and safety concerns. Thus, the components that once made Bible paper non-transparent with no see-through were changed, including removing Rag, and we now have a see-through (Allan term for what many call ghosting) epidemic.

Over the 20 or so, years I have collected and gave away Bibles, I noticed the change and in looking at some Bibles with actual print dates, the timing. This was confirmed by Allan via email. They also said they are constantly searching for good paper and have a very hard time finding a nice balance for all the criteria they impose on paper selection. They are very diligent about this and I believe they will find one. Their new paper has considerable see-through as do most now. The last Bible I bought with nice paper was a 1988 Nelson Signature Reference, USA print version. MY import one has typical see-through.

Oxford used a very high quality "True" India Paper back in the day and I imagine the Bible Steve refers to has this paper. Also, that paper will not degrade over the years. India Paper is not the smooth stuff, but it is the best to me. I have some vintage bibles that will “stack” over 1,000 sheets of it into less than 5/8 inch. It has minimal see-through, is not glossy, actually a flat appearance, and is completely non-reflective. When putting a page of this under light at various angles, only the print will reflect light. There is also no wave to it. Neat stuff. Maybe toxic? eek!

A Bible can be so personal, that one may become enamoured with “their special copy”. I am, sadly. Yet, I must remember that, if we get “closer” to our Maker, it matters not what style we read as long as we read and listen and know our Savior! It is nothing more than a luxury, a vanity perhaps, obviously not humble and certainly no exercise of temperance.

Bill

@John,
I think the Health and Safety issues relate to paper pulp products. The beauty of rag is that it's used in place of wood pulp. High rag content paper should be "greener" than all-pulp paper. I'd love to be corrected on this, but I think it all comes down to price. From what I can tell from limited research, no one but a handful of hobbyists make rag paper any more. Even the "watermark" paper used for typical letterhead is now all-pulp and just run through textured rollers to make it feel like "parchment paper".

I'd love to hear from an expert in the industry as to the economics and H&S aspects of all this. But I suspect they know all too well the size of this market and due to the economies of scale, producing old-fashioned "India paper" could add as much as $1000 per Bible to the price. At that point, even many of us enthusiasts would evaporate out of the market.

This may be analogous to making screws with a lathe instead of rolling them. Any perceived benefit just can't justify the cost.

Todd F.

I highly recommend visiting 1) used book stores, 2) flea markets, 3) yard sales, 4)estate sales, and 5) church sales to purchase a Bible.

I have bought better quality Bibles at my local used book store for a fraction of a fraction of the cost that I have paid online for a newer and poorer print. The paper, print, and illustration quality of older Bibles exceeds what's on the market now; it's worth your effort to make some inquiries the next time you're at a yard sale or walking around downtown. Granted, you most likely won't find the newer ESV translation second-hand, but you'd be surprised what turns up at your local garage sale or antique show if you are paying attention. eBay and Craigslist are fine, but I think you can strike gold closer to home.

The best piece of advice I could offer the Bible hunter is this: if you don't see it, don't be afraid to ask for it. A Bible isn't one of the first things that come to mind when people are trying to clean out grandma's house, organizing a spring yard sale, or planning to move some "big ticket" items at a flea market. Unfortunately, many people think you're crazy just to read the Bible let alone pay money for one so don't expect to see a Bible sitting on the sale table. Ask them if they have any Bibles for sale. You'll be happy you did.

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