Chocolate Brown Goatskin Details

My box from Allan's arrived yesterday morning, containing the long anticipated ESV1 BR in chocolate brown goatskin, as well as the NIV Cross Reference with Concordance, NIVC1 BR, in chocolate brown goatskin. I reviewed an earlier edition of the NIVC1 bound in a beautifully grained brown calfskin, and I'll naturally do a follow-up on the new cover option. Now that I have all three of the cover options for the ESV1 on hand, I'm also working on a side-by-side photo shoot that, in addition to reviewing the new edition, will help those of you uncertain of which color you prefer to make an informed decision.

For now, a couple of detail shots of the brown goatskin. The ESV1 has a tighter, more regular grain, while the NIVC1 is a bit more unpredictable. I'll say more in the review, but I want to add that the size of the NIVC1 -- a large slimline comparable to the KJV Long Primer -- seems perfectly ideal for the highland goatskin cover. It's wonderfully flexible, and makes me wonder what an ESV Thinline in highland goatskin would be like.

Above: Grain detail. You can also see the difference in the ribbons. The NIVC1 features two brown ones, while the ESV1 BR has three different colors: green, purple, and brown. It's a subtle feature. The effect is quite nice.

Above: "Chocolate" is the right word for the color, which has an almost confectionary sheen.

Above: This shot highlights the difference in grain. As a naturally-grained material, you can expect some variation from one example to the next. My black ESV1 has a rougher, irregular patter, while my tan and brown are more regular and refined.

A programming note: in case the link to my book in the side column hasn't tipped you off, I'm a writer. I turned in a new manuscript on February 1, and have a second one due April 1, which means I'm fitting the rest of my life (including blogging) into the gaps left over. That means I'm a bit backlogged on answering reader mail, and some of my reviews have taken longer than expected. Please bear with me!

Comments

[Scott]

Thanks for the update. Look forward to you review. Good luck with the new book.

Yep, I wonder what an ESV thinline in highland goatskin would be like and a ESV wide margin and a NASB thinline and a NASB WM and a Holman CSB and a...... well you get the picture.:-)

Scott

[kyle Hedrick]

Mark,

Don't worry about the downtime. I am eagerly awaiting your new book!

[Kathy]

Mark, will you let us know when your new book is available for pre-order; perhaps put up a link? Thanks!

[admin]

Don't worry, I will. I have two novels coming out in 2010, so there's still some time. No highland goatskin covers, I'm afraid!

[Jeremiah]

Chocolate brown is a great color - and these photos look like more great examples.

[Caleb]

Mark,
Will you be able to provide a review of the new Cambridge ESV wide-margin edition? I live outside the U.S. and cannot just go to a store and check it out for myself.

[Mark Alan]

Love the personal programming note which says essentially, "I have a real job that pays bills so I can't always be blogging," as though it were some sort of confession.

Let me exercise my pastoral office and declare absolution.

If hunger is the best sauce for food, then all future posts will simply be that much more delectable.

[Ron Parish]

I can attest to the fact chocolate brown is beautiful. It took about a week from the time my order for the ESV1 BR was placed until the time it appeared in my mailbox. As much as I like the tan, the brown is a better looking Bible IMHO. So there's one of each in my small Allan collection (the only two, BTW). I've got a small blurb about the ESV1 on my blog, if you would care to look.

[Steve Lockhart]

Mark's photos of the brown ESV are stunning. It looks so beautiful. Unfortunately I can't get past the poor choice of ribbon colours so I'm gonna go with the black limited edition. I will then have an Allan's Long Primer, an Allan's tan ESV, an Allan's NIV, the Allan's ESV limited edition, two Cambridge Pitt Minions (ESV and NASB; black an brown), a Cambridge Presentation KJV and my first premium bible: an In Touch Ministry's Calfskin wide margin. Mark your killin' me.

[Scott]

Mark,

I have to say too that your pictures are outstanding. They really give a good idea how great the multi-color ribbons look with the chocolate brown. Even though I shot mine with natural light and no flash I didn't come near showing how the ribbons truly look. I really believe the ribbon choice was brilliant by Allan. Of course I realize that's truly subjective on my part but I hope Allan continues with creative and interesting ideas like this.

Cheers

[Robert]

Hey All,
Thanks for a great site. I looked long and hard before buying a new Bible. My wife bought me the NIV Ref Bible in brown goat skin, and it is BEAUTIFUL.

Mark, you and the guys here were the best source on the web for detailed, comprehensive and accurate facts about the quality of Bibles available today. Thanks again.

Peace
Bob

[david urias]

I hear lots of comments on various styles of bibles for study...I am curious why no where do people talk about the Thompson Chain Reference...I have used the Thompson, along with others over 25 years and would be curious to hear what others might have to say about it...Just to keep on the good side of others, yesterday I received a Allan ESV1T and will really enjoy it...God Bless all...David.

[Phil Taylor]

Just out of interest what is ESV1? Is the 1 significant? Is there an ESV2?

[Scott]

David-I have a Thompson CR by Kirkbride that I've had for about 15 years. It a great Bible that I have not used to it's full potential. I also believe it's a great Bible for personal study. One that makes you think and meditate more than a classic study Bible with notes or comments for nearly every scripture. I like having both(Bibles with and without notes). I think to this point on this site you'll find more about design and binding. Although there is a lot more info than that and it keeps growing. It really is great.

Phil- There actually was an ESV2. It came out before the ESV1. Maybe someone here that has the 1 and 2 can explain the differences.

Scott

[Shawn Maynard]

OK, I am now hooked. I have been reading and then re-reading this post since last Thursday (2/12). I recently received a Crossway Bible Thinline ESV Calfskin Cordovan as a gift. This was the first bible that I have owned of this quality. I like it a lot but I really miss having the references. I am going to ask this group their opinion. Should I keep the one I have a be perfectly satisfied, or purchase the Allan's Chocolate Brown (I am into brown bibles)? I already own the ESV Study Bible (TruTone) for my study bible. This would be my carry around, daily reading, and preaching bible. What do you experts think?

[Scott]

Shawn- The Crossway ESV Thinline Cordovan Calfskin looks to be an excellent Bible. One day I would like to have either it or the black calfskin edition. I have the Crossway calfskin ESV Study Bible so I familiar with the black calfskin they use. If you haven't read it yet, Mark has an excellent write up of the Cordovan on his site here.

As far as should you get an Allan, I can't answer that. I've had my Allan chocolate brown(cb) ESV1 for a few weeks now I like everything about it, from the soft flexible cover to the text block from Collins that they use. It is very well made. My dad just received his cb ESV1 from Allan and it is just as nice as the one I purchased. So I can now say that Allan seems to be very consistent. I have a Pitt Minion goatskin from Cambridge that I really like also. I would like an ESV wide margin Bible. The one from Cambridge looks to be available now. After seeing what Crossway, Cambridge and Allan have to offer I will be waiting for Allan to produce a wide margin ESV. I hope this helps.

Bottom line: I'm very happy with the "premium" Bibles that I have from Crossway, Cambridge and Allan.

Scott

[David]

Shawn,

The Chocolate Brown ESV1 is a fantastic edition. I have both it and the black version and they are both incredible.

One thing to think about though: Based on a blog posting I read on evangelicalbible.com, Allan will be releasing another Bible around May/June that will apparently be an even better reference Bible, with a completely different typeface. I don't remember the exact wording that was used in the post, but it might be something worth waiting for. However, I assume the first binding of this "mystery" bible will be in Allan's black highland goatskin, not brown, but that's just speculation on my part.

If anyone has any further clues on this new "mystery" Bible, I'm sure we'd all be interested in hearing about it, though anyone "in the know" will be under contractual obligations not to discuss many details about it. Oh, I should mention that there will be two new Allan ESV's around that time: A new printing of the ESV2 and this mystery Bible. The ESV2 is already mentioned on Allan's site.

David

[Dave]

I've really enjoyed reading through all of the bible reviews, and have now started my own little Bible collection. But I'm wondering -- is there an internet discussion forum for this type of thing? I've found plenty of Bible forums where the content is discussed, but none for the packaging. Is there a forum where people discuss bindings, leather, covers, rebinding, etc.? My email address is chetmorton2002@yahoo.com if anyone cares to contact me directly. Thanks.

[Shawn Maynard]

David,

Would you mind e-mailing me your e-mail address so I can ask you a few questions? My e-mail address is smaynard_98@yahoo.com

Thank you.

[Mike smith]

Scott the ESV2 has a regular goat skin cover and not leather lined. It has the same printed text as the ESV1 (which is highland goatskin and leather lined which makes the Bible softer to the touch and feel. EvangelicalBible.com has the ESV2 for sale for $75.00 and sells the ESV1 also.

[Paul Lund]

Mark,

Received my Chocolate brown ESV1 yesterday which I had ordered from evangelicalbible.com. The looks and smell are as mentioned by so many. I was dissapointed when I looked at the copyright page and saw the statement "Printed and bound in China". I indicated my dissapointment to evangelicalbible.com and all they did was respond with "Your not the only one who noticed this.
The pages were printed in China, but the Bible was bound in the UK..."
I think Allan and/or evangelicalbible.com should mention the statement about Chinese manufacture on their web pages and all advertised specifications.

In my own mine it reduced the personal value of the product (not the biblical message content)substantially.

Stay warm Mark.

Paul Lund

[jmarkbertrand]

Paul, if you do a search on the site, there's been quite a bit of discussion already about this. The text blocks were printed in China by Collins, the UK publisher of the ESV, but bound in the UK, where the maps were added. The binding was obviously done in the UK, too. I'll include a discussion of this in my upcoming review, but the short version is, Allan's sources text blocks from the publishers licensed to produce them (in this case Collins), so my understanding is that they have limited control over that aspect of things.

[Mike Jewell]

I have the ESV1BR and ESV2, and as Mike Smith said the biggest differences between them is the binding. However, the typeset is not the same. The ESV2 is not as dark as the ESV1BR and does not have as much blead-through. As I mentioned in another post here I feel the the typeset of the ESV1 is somewhat inferior to the other premium options available. If Allan's is going to release an ESV bible with an improved typeset I would definitely suggest waiting for it. The paper and readability of the ESV1 (while by no means terrible) simply does not keep pace with its Cambridge counterparts. I would suggest buying an ESV2 now and waiting for an improved version of the ESV1. Im boxing mine back up and hoping the new ESV will utilize superior printed components that can do justice to the amazing binding and leather work of R.L. Allan.

[Steve Lockhart]

Paul, why would you be disappointed if you thought they were printed and bound in China? Do you have a problem with the Chinese? Why did it reduce the personal value of the bible? Those sound like very unchristian thoughts to me.

[Scott]

Interesting. One of the things I really like about my ESV1BR is the readability. My 67 year old dad, who needs cheaters, finds it easy to read also. The only thing I have around the house from Cambridge is my ESV Pitt Minion(I really like it) which has about the same bleed through as the Collins text. I'll have to pay more attention to the Ref. ed. of the ESV from Cambridge the next time I'm at the bookstore(always something new to learn). I'm still "doin' a jig" over all these fine Bibles we have to choose from from Allan, Cambridge, Crossway etc.

Cheers

[Ben]

I believe that Paul is only concerned with the quality of construction of the Bible, not in the ethnic background of those producing it.

Foundation Publications used to produce a high quality version of the side column NASB here in the USA: calfskin, wide margins, French paper, raised bands on the spine. When production shifted to China, there was a noticable drop in quality: the size was reduced, no more bands in the spine, etc.

When I first noticed the "Printed and Bound in China" label, I immediately went to this website and searched to find out what was going on. Having such information readily available is a tremendous blessing. Thank you. . .

[Mike Jewell]

Scott,

Indeed, dont get me wrong. The ESV1 is not unreadable at all, and the type is large enough for most readers. Im just saying the combined level of bleed through and paper quality is not what I was hoping for. I have a couple of Oxford bibles and Cambridge bibles where the text and paper simply feel and look more refined. Its a matter of opinion for sure, and I am not unhappy with the ESV1 other than that a better version might be coming out soon that I wish I had waited for.

[Scott]

Hey Mike,

No, not at all. I believe I know what your saying. And like I said, I'm going to really take at look at the text block closer an the other editions of Cambridge Bibles. I'm looking forward to seeing the Cambridge Wide Margin ESV and what Allan is working on for later this year. I do hope they have a wide margin on the horizon themselves.

On another note, would Allan have their "hands tied" so to speak on what text block would be available to them because of licensing and copy rights and such?

Cheers

[Paul Lund]

Paul, why would you be disappointed if you thought they were printed and bound in China? Do you have a problem with the Chinese? Why did it reduce the personal value of the bible? Those sound like very unchristian thoughts to me.

Mike,

So what! Who says this site is restricted to only Christian thoughts? Are you the "Thought Police"?

As I stated, I am disappointed that the copyright page in the ESV1 stated that the product was printed and bound in China. Also in my own mind, it reduced the personal value of the product (not the biblical message content)substantially.

I stand by my position that in my mind, it reduced the value of the product.

[Paul]

I have corresponded with Paul directly regarding the Chinese issue. As Mark Bertrand stated earlier, Harper Collins-the ESV UK license holder made this choice.

We are currently putting the final spec's on the above stated "mystery" Allan ESV. We have invited all to make suggestions regarding this new Allan Classic.

A few things to consider:

It will have about 1" margins. The font will be substantially larger. The paper will be the most opaque available. It is a text block that will not be in service by anyone except Allan. Enough said.

If you have any comments please let us know: info@evangelicalbible.com

thanks and Blessings
evangelicalbible.com

[Ben Ting]

WOW! Already sounds GREAT! I wish the price will not be "Classic"! ;)

[Scott]

Paul @ EB,

Thanks for the info. Looking forward to the new Allan classic.

[Mike Jewell]

@Paul Lund,

I wasnt the one criticizing you about the Chinese thing, that was someone else. I agree with you and expressed my own mild disappointment regarding the printing in the ESV1.

I am excited for this new edition. It will be a while before I can justify the purchase though...

[Rod Summers]

Regarding the Allan's classic I hope that they don't have only outside margins using a double column format. The Crossway ESV Wide Margin is formatted this way and I find it very frustrating. I guess my question would be how this classic version will be different than the Cambridge ESV Wide Margin???

[Steve Lockhart]

Paul, are you concerned that someone other than yourself might see the "Printed and bound in China" blurb at the front of your bible and not realize how expensive it was? Isn't it enough that you know that it cost enough to feed a small village in some poor country?

[Robert Lombardi]

Nicholas as Allan thinks they actually did a better job at printing in China. Perhaps because they get such good deals on manufacturing machinery in China they might actually have newer, better printing facilities over there. I didn't get to compare between this version of the ESV1 and the previous version, but that's Nicholas's take on it.

Steve has a good point. I know someone who's a missionary to China and she certainly doesn't like people talking about not buying stuff from China. Of course, God has placed a special burden in her heart for the Chinese, so people like me don't think about it in the same way she does. But she certainly changed my perspective when she talks about the poor situations and the struggle to simply put food on the table. The job may be well below standard that are acceptable to us, but for them, it's a step up from where they were.

[Chuck Foy]

I received my chocolate brown Allan ESV Bible today. Leather is smooth and smells great. However, the Bible is "bound and printed in China"; there is no mention on any of the pages of "R.L.Allan, Glasgow, Scotland". The front cover has "highland goatskin" and the rear cover has "Allan binding". The Bible does not lay flat when opened to the book of Genesis. While it is a swell looking and great smelling Bible, it no way can be considered to be the work of the best Bible printer "on the planet"! Further, it is overpriced. Cambridge puts out a better product in my opinion. My Bible looks like someone ripped off the original binding and rebound it in goatskin. I've had all of my rebinding work done by Mechling Bookbindery and they do a far better job. For all the hype about Allan Bibles, I am extremely disappointed. Live and learn!

Chuck Foy

[matt morales]

Chuck - If it is a bad as you say I would return it. I would agree that cambridge does a better printing of the ESV as of now...but not binding in my opinion. I have had MANY rebinding jobs done by Mechling but none come close to Allan quality.

[Scott]

There seems to be disturbing trend starting. If there is a problem with a Bible it seems the best and most appropriate way to handle it would be to call the manufacture and explain what the problem is and let them provide you with customer service. From what I understand, companies like Allan and Cambridge have outstanding customer service.

FWIW, I have purchased two Bibles from Allan, both ESVBR and they are absolutely wonderful in every way.

Cheers,

Scott

[Robert Lombardi]

Chuck, you comment, "does not lay flat when opened to the book of Genesis" reveals you are perhaps not qualified to judge "good binding" The very reason it doesn't lay flat at Genesis is because Allan put an extra amount of stitching called "overcast" stitching. This is a mark of good binding and from what I can tell, most Cambridges don't have such a feature. The reality, is, Allan did not simply take a bible, rip off the binding and put Goatskin.

If you love your Bible as the Word of God, you should also love the truth. And the truth is far different than your current "opinion". Chuck, you really should educate yourself on what good binding is before trying to make a judgement.

[S S Morgan]

I received my Allan NIVC1 BR in mid-January this year. The chocolate brown leather cover is beautiful to the eye and soft and supple to the touch. The two ribbons are a convenient feature to me as a pastor teaching from different section of the Scriptures during the week. I have thoroughly enjoyed using the cross reference system and concordance, both of which are far more complete than any other Bible I've used. The maps are visually appealing to me, as well. I love working with this Bible very much. Yet,for all of it beauty in appearance and handy features, I do have one hang up: the "red under gilt"/"art-gilt" edging on the pages. (I'll take the blame; I did not fully understand what art-gilt would look like when I ordered it.) The red under gilt edging looks pinkish-orange when the Bible lays open. I guess I'm uncouth, but I don't find that aspect of the NIVC1 BR's appearance appealing. It will grow on me, I suppose. It seems like almost all of Allan's Bible's feature red under gilt edging. Is that style of edging popular in the UK? Am I missing something, Mark? Help me appreciate art-gilt and I'll feel better about spending $130 on a Bible that I cannot return with a good conscience.

[Robert Lombardi]

When viewed from the side, the red-under gold has a warmish luster. Without the red under gold, the side view of the pages would have a very metallic look of just gold. The red is added purely for asthetic reasons. I had asked Nicholas at R.L. Allan if the red under gold provides longer life for the gold, and he said no.

As for the method, they actually press the gold foil on first, and then shoot the red through the gold foil. So although it is called red under gold, it's actually red through gold.

[john]

Interesting comments on the ESV1. Seems many are dissapointed in it. I also was disappointed in mine as compared to other quality Bibles I have. It is not the “total package”. I truly think the paper and gold edging are inferior to many bibles I have including other Allan Bibles. My 6C opened Genesis flat from the box. The ESV1 did not as it took the typical break-in procedures. Both have the Highland Goatskin with Allan's impeccable craftsmanship, but the 6C was printed in the Netherlands on different paper of higher quality. 50% thinner than the ESV1 per Nicholas @ Allan, with about the same see-through. Laws concerning paper makin' changed in the 1970s due to health concerns per Nicholas @ Allans, thus the ongoing struggle. I do not have any problem with where they are printed provided the quality is there, but do not see a need to blindly defend an inferior product. There is no comparison between the gilt work on these either with the ESV1 having a pink hue and a rough edge. As for the Chinese having newer equipment, new does not always equate to better. I have bought equipment for my shops for over 30 years now, and I learned the hard way to stay away from Chinese equipment. I outfitted an entire shop with it and had to replace it all in a matter of weeks. It feel apart. This is based on solid experience by myself and an equipment expert friend that was commissioned to work in China with them duplicating USA equipment. They refused to reduce tolerances for the equipment to operate accurately and expected him to QC the prototypes from 30 feet. I do sympathize with conditions all over the world, but if the product is not up to a company’s highly regarded standards, why defend it let alone buy it? What is sad about this is that Allan & Sons takes the heat while Harper Collins sits back. As for not buying Chinese stuff, my purchases are based on quality not country of origin.

[Joanne]

It's been awhile since anyone responded to this post, so perhaps this won't be seen, but I wanted to add my thoughts on the ESV1 (tan) which arrived Saturday. I had read such positive reviews on it that I was anxiously awaiting it's arrival. What started all this was about a month ago when I bought a trutone copy of the ESV classic reference-a newer one with 2007 text update- and I thought it was the perfect size for taking to church and had great print even for my 55 year old eyes. The downsize was the binding. The inside paper lining started to crack immediately, which is extremely irritating to me. So, after emailing Allan's publishers and evengelicalbible.com, I was assured that the text would be virtually the same in the ESV1 (perhaps even better since it wouldn't be red letter, which I personally don't like.) When the Bible arrived, I was very excited about the binding. It was all that it was described to be. But when I opened the Bible, I was extremely disappointed. The quality of the paper and the bleedthrough made it a completely different reading experience than the cheaper crossway Bible I mentioned earlier. So, sadly, I will be sending back the beautiful Allan's Bible today, and hoping for a much more readable "Reader's Version" in the fall. One more comment-one person mentioned that he didn't like the red gilt edging on the Allan Bible. I know this isn't a popular view, but I would have to add that I agree. In my opinion it was one more thing that added to the not very readable impression I got from the ESV1. I much prefer a gold edging, even though it may scratch easier. Perhaps with bigger margins it wouldn't be as noticable. So, as someone who has never even seen an Allan Bible before, here is my unbiased opinion. I look forward in the future to owning such a beautiful Bible, but hopefully with paper and print to match the outside beauty and quality.