Still More Unboxing: Allan's ESV1BR

Remember Daniel Holle? On January 22, I reported that his son had visited Allan's in Glasgow to snap photos of the chocolate brown ESV1. Actually, it was his nephew, and in addition to taking the pictures, he also selected a copy for David. Since highland goatskin is a natural product, there are variations from one cover to the next. David's nephew was able to compare and choose the one he thought David would enjoy the most. Pretty cool, huh? Now that the Bible has arrived in the US, David sent along some more photos:

Comments

[Scott]

Great pics, David. Enjoy your new Bible.

[Tom Burk]

David,

Nice pics!

Your ESV1br looks to have a much softer cover than does my ESV1r. My cover will not stay open like yours does in the picture. The calfskin on my ESV Heirloom is a lot softer. I must admit that this is a bit disappointing. I am hoping with usage that it will soften similarly....

[Daniel Holle]

Tom-
Thank you for your comments. It was a blessing to receive this bible-one that Allan's allowed and coached my nephew on as he picked from the shipment. He lives just minutes away in Glasgow for his studies. Their customer service is some of the best I've ever received. I was a little reticent ordering goatskin since the only nice bibles I've ever had are calfskin Nelson Signatures and wondered if anything could exceed their softness and pliability. Hope did not disappoint as this often feels like it will slide right out of my hand. I had to buy three Nelsons before landing one with a really nice cover. You must have gotten an exceptional calfskin; a treasure. I am with you in that goatskin and calfskin are just different. I've noticed the Nelson is softer, yet thicker. So, it doesn't lay open as well. The goatskin is almost as soft, yet because of the slick finish and just slightly thinner hide, makes it even lay open better and a joy to touch. One thing that has helped me over the years with the Nelsons is fine hand lotion, like residual amounts of Gold Bond or Allan Edmonds leather lotion. I am officially hooked on Allan's fine bibles. It sure makes a difference to handle God's Word in the Allan's Goatskin.

[Wandering Friar]

I continue to admire the beauty of these Allans bibles. This is no exception. Wouldn't it be nice to have this Bible as text only, paragraph only, and black-letter only? That would be my concept of an (almost) perfect Bible.

Blessings.

WF

[Steve Lockhart]

David, Calfskin may not be as supple as calfskin but it is far more durable. There is no higher quality leather for bible binding. That's why you pay the big bucks for it.

[Steve Lockhart]

Oops. That was supposed to read goatskin may not be as supple as calfskin... above.

[SAWBONES]

Gee, that one looks exactly like my Allan highland goatskin ESV2, except that all my three ribbons are brown.
It truly is a beautiful cover and binding job. Now if only they would oversew ("overcasting") both the first and last signatures!

[Tom Burk]

Steve-
My Cambridge KJV wide-margin is in goatskin. That Bible is just as soft as is my calfskin ESV Heirloom. There's just something about a Bible having a great cover that makes reading it more enjoyable. ;)

[Scott]

"Now if only they would oversew ("overcasting") both the first and last signatures!"

Sawbones, is that where they sew well onto a page out from the gutter so it's very easy to see the stitch. If so, that's what they've done. I was glad to see that because if I recall that's a very good thing. I believe I read that here in a review or in the comment section. It's my understanding that that makes the pages less likely to come apart, correct?

[Tom Burk]

Scott-
Okay, help me out here; what does "'overcasting' both the first and last signatures" mean?

[Scott]

Tom,

This may be a case where I know just enough to be dangerous.:-o If it means what I think it does you can see it on page 8 (Gen. 8:17) of my ESV1. The stitching on that page is very easy to see because it's not hidden by the pages in the "gutter", the center where the pages meet the binding. So I believe it's extra stitching for reinforcement. I have seen this on some of my sewn bound books not just my Bibles. I believe the manufactures of the text would be responsible for that (Collins). I looked at my Bible again and in the back I couldn't find it but I may just be missing it.

If I'm wrong, sorry and someone please correct me. That's what I love about this site. I'm learning so much about quality bound books.

Scott

[Scott]

Tom,

Just wanted to reiterate. Please take my comments with a big grain of salt. There's a good chance I may be completely wrong about over sew(overcasting). I hope someone else will chime in on the subject.

Scott

[David]

Scott,

That is overcasting on page 8 of the ESV1. Evangelicalbible.com defines overcasting as such:

"The technical word is 'overcasting' for the extra line of vertical stitching which is inserted at the middle of the first section and sometimes the middle of the last section to add strength to the binding. A sign of expert binding."

Here's a link to the evangelicalbible.com page that talks about it and has a link to a few pictures:

http://www.evangelicalbible.com/recommend.htm

David

[Scott]

David, Thank you!

Yes, that's what I was trying to explain. Funny, I scanned that whole article the other day and skipped right past the glossary of terms.

Tom,

Copy and paste the link David provided and it will give you a definition and great pictures of overcasting.

Scott

[Vince Ramirez]

how come this edition has 3 different ribbon colors? was that chosen as well?

[Vince Ramirez]

how come this edition has 3 different ribbon colors? was that chosen as well?

[Vince Ramirez]

how come this edition has 3 different ribbon colors? was that chosen as well?

[Scott]

The three color ribbons are the standard colors with the chocolate brown ESV from Allan at this time, Vince. They really are nice.

[Cesar]

Why are they printed and bounded in China?

[Steve Lockhart]

Cesar,

You don't think the Chinese are capable of good craftsmanship?

[Tom Burk]

Scott and David-

Thanks for the info on overcasting. Yes, I've seen it in some of my Bibles and books. I just did not know what it is called. Now I feel educated! ;)

[David]

Cesar,

This has been covered before but I don't remember all the details. Even though these bibles say they are printed and bound in China, what this really means is that the text block is printed (and I'm guessing smyth sewn as well) in China but the bibles are covered in the Allan bindings in the UK. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is basically correct.

David

[Jeff Seymour]

The textblock isn't even sewn in China, it is only printed there by a Christian printer. Allan's had to delay the current ESV1 bibles by several weeks back in the summer because sewn textblocks were delivered and they couldn't add the maps. This info appeared on the Evangelical Bible website. So Allan's does all of the binding, including the sewing.

[Cesar]

Thanks for the info David. I found out about Allan bibles on this blog not to long ago. I just received mine by mail yesterday and am very pleased with it. Thanks all of you for your comments on your experiences with this and other bibles.

[SAWBONES]

Overcasting used to be standard on both the first and last signatures of ALL best-quality leather covered Bibles from Oxford, Cambridge and Collins thirty odd years ago.
These were almost all KJV Bibles at that time, plus the rare example of the ASV Bible from Holman; the RSV didn't come with any really good quality bindings, and the only newer versions then available were the NASB, the Jerusalem Bible and NAB, and they didn't come with particularly good quality bindings, either. None came from the three main British presses noted above.

Nowadays, Cambridge no longer employs overcasting in ANY of the various editions I've seen. Oxford still does, dunno about Collins.
Allan's may use overcasting in their editions on the first signature but not the last, judging from the brown Highland Goatskin ESV1 I have.

The overcasting simply helps take up some of the wear strain which is put on the first and last signatures. These signatures are always being forced open the widest of all the signatures whenever and wherever the book is opened, but the overcasting really only limits wear to those signatures when the oversewn signatures are themselves individually spread open.
Overcasting is obviously not a crucial feature, but it's just one more aspect of production quality which has largely fallen by the wayside today.

[Brian]

I wish Alan's would produce a similar edition with the new ESV with the Apocrypha.

[David]

For what it's worth at this point, I just want to say that when I first heard that the Brown ESV1 would have three different ribbon colors, I decided I wouldn't buy one. After I saw many of the pictures many of the people have posted as well as the ones evangelicalbible.com posted on their site, I was convinced that I didn't like the ribbons and wouldn't buy one. However, time passed and someone on this site (I'm too lazy to look up the post right now) said something along the lines that the ribbon colors are much darker in person. I think someone else said not to let the ribbon colors stop you from buying this bible.

Anyway, I finally broke down and ordered one and it arrived yesterday. The ribbons are indeed darker in person (and shorter compared to my black ESV1) and coordinate well with each other and with the bible cover itself. I think they're quite classy and elegant, in fact. I'm extremely pleased, though I will mention that my black ESV1 has a more distinctive and rougher grain pattern. I have the chocolate brown Allan NIV as well and the grain pattern on it and this new ESV1 are pretty much identical. Perhaps Allan has resorted to cloning goats to keep up with the demand this site has created.

Bottom line: Black or Brown, get what you like. Both are great. The ribbons on both look great. Tan's not my thing, but many on this site obviously love it. Allan can do no wrong, it seems.

[David]

I should have added that the photos David posted in this particular post show the ribbon colors to be dark, deep, and elegant as they truly appear in person and that helped influence me as well.

[Rod Summers]

My ESV1BR came in today from Allan's. This is absolutely an exquisite Bible. Some don't like the ribbons but I really do like the "splash" of color. The cover is the best feeling goatskin cover I've received from Allan's. The inside dark brown cover is classy. Thanks Allan's for the great Bibles and thanks Mark for the blog.

[Shawn Maynard]

The description on the evangelicalbibles.com state that the ESV text is the 2007 version, is that true? I couldn't tell from the pictures.

[Scott]

Yes it's true. It is the Anglicized text. A word like color is colour. You are asking about the Allan ESV1, correct?

[Shawn Maynard]

Scott, thank you.

[Eric]

I have a Foundation publications NASB in calfskin and would like to have it rebound in its original cover. Does anyone know if I could keep the leather lining, or would they rip out the lining and put in vinyl? (I want it rebound in its old cover because it is in good condition and the only problem is the end tabs and the glue.)

My e-mail address is notayankee1@yahoo.com (to the owner of this site: please do not take out my address).

[John]

WOW, it gives me great joy to see a bunch of folks that are into quality Bibles as am I. I thought I was headed over to the crazy side in this, and maybe I am, however I am not alone. I love the Word of God. I love reading from a well made source. It seems that a great bible adds to the joy in the reading and studing.
I have a decent collection, to include Nelson, Kirkbride, Crossway, Cambridge, Foundation,vintage Zondervans,and soon an Allan. All are leather lined, most with 2 ribbons. I happened on the upper end Bible by accident. I bid and won a vintage Zondervan Chain of Reference System", very unique, Bible that was lined with leather. As I used it, I noticed I enjoyed the "lay" of the book and the overall feel to it. I was taught at a young age to open and press the pages to get a book to "open" right, but i did not need to do this with it! This was different. Better. Richer feeling. Flatter and the print was cleaner, and it was printed on some stuff called India Paper and smyth sewn. Hmmm, this has thread in it? ok. Then the bug hit me and I was off. Now I have limited my purchases to the top shelf Bibles, in different translations, as to compare, and I will sit for hours in total peace and enjoyment. And I love vintage India Paper. To see the India watermarks marks throughout a vintage Bible is wonderful. I can hardly wait for my Allan ESV1 to arrive so I can compare, feel, and study from it. Currently my favorite is a custom ordered indexed Thompson chain by Kirkbride. The order was cancelled by another and I was Blessed to have the option for it. The cover is from a natural med brown calfskin like nothing I have seen yet. Much thinner than a Nelson and smoother. The lay is awesome. I am hoping the Allan with be similar from what I have read. Anyway, thanks.

[john lungo]

Well, my Allan arrived! I must say the cover material is very good indeed as is the liner material. They did a very tidy job with it. However, I am not overly excited about it as a whole. True, they did a great job on binding it with a nice overlay, but with all the hype here, I expected more. The lay of it is average, it must be "broken in" to lay flat, it does not from the box as some of my others have. It does not even have raised bands on the spine. The binders, ABBA, that take care of the In Touch Bibles do a better job to me. Lays flat from the box, also has raised bands on the spine. The print and paper in the Allan? Well the print is average at best. I have many other Bibles with much cleaner print, even my vintage Zondervans are clearer. The paper has much bleed through from the back side print as compared to others I have as well, those of the same general size and thickness. Some even smaller. It does have the 3 ribbons and they are a boon to me. I am spoiled now and forever by them and plan on adding to my others. All in all, I would not recommend this to my friends. I wonder if anyone here checked the paper before approving it for print? Compare the gold edging on the Allan to a Cambridge. The Allan is inferior, considerably so. Sorry folks.

[Scott]

John, sorry about your experience with the Allan Bible. Sounds like the best thing you could have done was sent your Bible back to Allan. Their customer service is outstanding. I have purchased two ESV1BRs from Allan and they are wonderful in every way. Both simply "splilled open" flat from Genesis to Revelations right out of the box. I would recommend Allan Bible's to all my friends (and relatives) and I look forward to having the means to give gifts of Allan Bibles to friends and family. Anyone who has handled my Allan are amazed out how wonderful it is.

Grace and peace to you,

Scott

[john]

No problem, maybe mine was a "Friday" version. It is about the "perfect" size and I use it instead of my Heirloom from Crossway. The Crossway is too heavy to read in bed:) Oh, one ribbon is about 1/2" shorter than the others. It's just the paper I am disappointed in mainly. Considering it's thickness, it should not have as much see-through as it does. My Allan 6C paper is much thinner with bolder print and it has about the same see-through. Thick may mean flat with no waves (which I do not mind), but does not always mean better. It's what the paper is made of and how it’s made that counts. I think the paper is what stopped mine from being flat from the box without my helping it. I am not sure. The 6C seemed well traind from the start. When I said "lay" it did.
If anyone has an older ESV with the older wavy paper and wants to trade for the newer flat paper version, please let me know, a two ribbon one is fine as well. Oh, I made a mistake on the ESV1 print, it is very sharp and fine. Not sure what I was thinking on that, unless it is the see-through and my bad eyes. And yes, I will still buy Allan Bibles. The 6C hooked me. And the gold edging on the 6C is much better and smoother as well. When all is "right", Allan has no peers as a publisher.

[mike smith]

john I would be willing to exchange I have the tan version still in the box only open to look at and put away as a gift for my son. He wants the NIV. Mike Smith- bellwood3@verizon.net.