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April 09, 2009

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Comments

Stan McCullars

Another good review. Thanks for the work you put into your reviews.

I've been considering a Tyndale Select NLT and you may have pushed me over the edge. I've not sure if I want the mahogany or black (like almost all my other Bibles).

ElShaddai Edwards

You might be interested to know that Tyndale has evidently licensed the NLT text to Cambridge and there will be several Pitt Minion editions of a new reference Bible available in August. Bindings are black and brown goatskin and a black French Morocco. See here for more details.

Steve D'Alessio

I have this Bible, and your pictures show the same annoying flaw that I have in my copy, the paper crinkles in the middle of the Bible when the pages are opened. I have a number of other bibles that do this as well. Also, for some reason the cover on my copy of this Bible curves up and won't stay flat even after it has been in a heavy stack of Bibles for a long time or after I have spent lots of time to bend it the other way. All in all, I am not impressed very much with this binding. I am much more impressed with Nelson's Signature Series Bibles. I do agree with your assessment of the layout although I have seen more readable type.

California Dave

I've owned a copy of the Tyndale Select NLT Mahogany for a couple of years now and thoroughly enjoy it. This Bible's larger footprint provides sufficient space for a larger font size, making this Bible a real joy to read while laying in bed or some other slouch/casual position. The red font on my copy is dark, crisp and readable, not the dreaded "atomic pink" which strains the eyes when using suboptimal reading light.

I'm personally not a big fan of Mahogany colored Bibles if other color choices are available, and the first one I saw was more of the traditional mahogany with the pronounced red hues. Fortunately our local Bible store had about six copies of this Bible in Mahogany when I was visiting, and I had the opportunity to review and compare all of them side by side. I was surprised at the color variation between all of them in that no two were exactly the same color. I got very lucky and grabbed the one that had the most distinctive brown hue to it. It is very similar in color to the Allan's ESV dark brown goatskin, although it doesn't have anywhere near as nice a grain pattern as the Allan's Bible does. Its worth the effort of shopping around if you're looking for a particular hue of Mahogany for this wonderful Bible.

On a separate note, I've got a question regarding the 2nd Edition NLT translation which is used for this Bible. Take a look at the following verse:

Ge 3:16   Then he said to the woman,I will sharpen the pain of your pregnancy, and in pain you will give birth. And you will desire to control your husband, but he will rule over you.

Notice "desire to control your husband" as something new? I've never seen another translation use "control" before in this context, including the 1st Edition NLT translation. I never formally studied Greek, so I was wondering if some of the readers of Mark's blog might have some insight.

Laura Bartlett

Mark, thanks for the review. Beautiful photos! You're right to conclude that we don't cherry pick products to send out for reviews--you're also right that we'd be happy to replace your copy (or anyone else's) if there's a trim error. Steve, this applies to your concern about the cover, too--I've never seen a copy of Tyndale Select do that--I wonder if your Bible was exposed to extreme heat in the truck on the way to the store. Tyndale customer service's number is 1-800-323-9400.

CA Dave,I can add a bit of insight to your question on Gen 3:16. The Cornerstone Commentary series includes translation commentary on the NLT and this is what commentator Allen Ross says about "control" there:

The word "desire" is rightly translated in the NLT as "desire to control." The word has often been assumed to mean physical desire, based on its use in the Song of Songs (Song 7:10). But that desire is not a result of sin; it is not a curse. Song of Songs is written in praise of the union of the sexes in marriage as God intended. Genesis 3 is an oracle declaring the effect of sin on the human race. The clue to the interpretation of this word comes from its use in 4:7, where God speaks to Cain, "Sin is crouching at the door, eager to control you [lit., "its desire is for you"]. But you must subdue it and be its master" (lit., "you can have the mastery over it"). It is that kind of struggle that is intended in 3:16, a struggle between desiring to control and mastering. This is not what God intended in a marriage; it is what sin looks like.
Ryan

Unlike others, I was considering this bible and your excellent review has caused me to wait for something better to come along. I am glad that this will no longer be the 'only game in town.' It's quality does not seem to justify its price tag.
Ryan

California Dave

Laura: Thank you for posting your response. Very informative and helpful. Perhaps someday Tyndale will do this cover with a single column text and cross references within the inside column hint hint :)

Ryan: Amazon Price is at $85. For whatever its worth, I can tell you hands down this is an awesome Bible for its price. The premium calfskin cover on mine is very supple and soft. It's an absolute joy to hold and read because of its nice sized footprint but thin thickness. A friend of mine has the ebony version and it looks great and has the same feel to it. The upcoming Cambridge Pitt Minion version sure sounds appealing, but I kind of look at the Pitt Minion size as having a completely different utility in that it's about 1/3 the size compared to the Tyndale Select. Probably best to play it safe and get both :)

SAWBONES

I too own this bible, and obtained it by mail, sight-unseen.
Unfortunately, it demonstrates the rather poor quality of binding I've noted with Tyndale bibles since back in the '70s. (I still have a leather-bound Living Bible from back then!)

The page stack (the convex hillock of pages near the centerline of an opened-flat bible) is lumpy and irregular, or one might say "wavy", due to poor compression and stability of the center binding. My particular copy of the NLT also has the mahogany leather cover bound considerably off center, both from left-right and top-bottom directions, and slightly rotated (skewed) as well, making for a really sloppy-looking bible! Maybe it was a "Friday-Bible", but Tyndale's QC really leaves something to be desired. :)

I can put up with the paper bleed-through, but the binding is truly mediocre. There's no comparing a binding like this to that on any Allan bible, and for those who do own a Long Primer, you'll find the page stack to be solid and the center binding tight.

Jeff Seymour

All that you people with the bad bibles have to do is contact customer service of the bible manufacturer and I'm sure any of them would be happy to rectify your problems. We've even heard on this blog of a bad bible or two coming from Allan's. It happens. But don't gripe unless you can't get satisfaction from the bible maker. If you make an effort, most of them will bend over backwards to help and make sure you return as a customer.

Jeff Seymour

Why did Allan's stop making their NLT bibles? The ones I've seen on ebay look great! If Cambridge is making a pitt minion, can a wide margin edition be far behind? If so, sign me up!

mike smith

Jeff I own a Allans NLT Bible (bought on ebay around a month ago) It is a great Bible from allans. Note it is not leather lined and the print is a bit small, but readable. I had emailed Allans around 4 months ago to see if they still sold copys and they do not. To answer your question along with other Bible version Allans just feels they want to go forward with other Bibles and leave some older version ( note the NLT Bible is from 2001). And if you noticed the Bibles being sold on Ebay and other sites noted in this blog there were other Allans Bible never sold again.

Jeff Seymour

I realize that Allan's probably didn't have much success with the NLT or they would still offer it. I've been contemplating an NLT and the one reviewed here is the one I like. But, as I stated above, I believe I'll wait to see what Cambridge offers. It's not Allan's, but a well made Cambridge wide margin would be worth the wait (if they make one).

Marc Shepherd

Just received my new wide margin Cambridge NASB in goatskin. So nice I'm scared to open it!!! But then what good is a Bible if it's not read, right? Anyway, I thought I'd post this because it was this sight that offered everything I needed to make my decision. As a minister, this is a great Bible and I plan to use it from the pulpit. Thanks for the great information. Helped a million.

Marc S
Beaumont

David Farlow

Couple more Auctions on now for those who are interested...

Vintage Oxford Ruby Text Bible in Red Pigskin
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130299765509

Vintage Cambridge NASB 1977 Burgundy Concord Ref. Bible
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130299769090

Happy Bidding!

Matt Rosser

I just e-mailed you. I'm a new friend so please don't delete the message titled, "Picking the brain of the bible design guru", from matthew.rosser@dvn.com

David Farlow

Another Oxford Red Ruby on offer here:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130300426721

DDeering

What is the price of this Bible?? I am looking for a NIV Bible where can
i get a NIV indexed with leather cover for a decent price.

Thanking u in advance.

Paul LaChapelle

Try campusi.

http://www.dealoz.com/search.pl?catby=book.keyword&query=NIV+Leather+Thumb+Index&x=40&y=15&lang=en-us&search_country=us&shipto=us&cur=usd&zip=&nw=y&limit=10

Jason

There are two deal breakers for me with this Bible: the wavy pages in the center ("gutter"?), and the little margin space in the middle where the pages meet.

Cristian Franco

Thank you Mark! I'm NLT big fan since English is my second language. Every blessing from Argentina!

Matthew Johnson

FYI, I just got the ebony version and the ribbons come about three inches out of the bottom, so they're quite a bit longer than the ones in that picture. Hopefully it's a quality control issue.

Bill

As a result of listening to Garrison Keilor (!) reading a Gospel harmony (ISBN13=978-1598870169) I've become quite impressed with the NLT and was fortunate to receive a large-print Premium TuTone Slimline Reference from my daughter for Christmas. Mine is ISBN 978-1414313986 with new copies available for <$20 from Amazon sellers. The synthetic leather is the best I've seen, wonderful to touch, and I like the "in-paragraph references" approach for reasons I've stated elsewhere. I generally prefer single-column layouts, but at 9-10 words-per-line, this one avoids seeming choppy during reading. The only draw-back (other than the red-letters!) is the ghosting, which is just at the ragged edge of what I'd call being tolerable without using a black backing paper. Judging from the pagination, this is the same printing as the Tyndale select model Mark is reviewing. And judging from Mark's pictures, the ghosting is just as bad in his "select" edition.

So my question is, does Tyndale use the same text block, including even the same paper, in its select editions as in their imitation leather editions at 20% the street price? This won't be the first time publishers have done this. We've got to get through to these guys that it's not just the binding; we also expect top-of-the-line paper to go with top-of-the-line prices.

Erik

Thanks for yet another solid review Mark and for causing my wallet to become lighter...again. ;)

I went with the NLT Select in Ebony Calfskin and couldn't be more thrilled. A lot of the problems that you and others who commented above experienced simply did not happen to me. Maybe it's because I have the ebony calfskin edition. Who knows?

Anyhow, below are 100 pictures of my incredibly flexible Bible. For all those debating whether or not to take the plunge, trust me, it's well worth it. Enjoy the pics...

http://kowalker.com/2010/02/05/100-pictures-of-my-tyndale-select-nlt-in-ebony-calfskin/

Erik

Mark,

You mentioned this line below in your review above:

"One of the first things you'll notice opening the Tyndale Select NLT is the reinforced hinges on either side of the text block. They prevent the text from laying perfectly flat..."

You were right on.

I was at a local Christian bookstore and opened the Mahogany Calfskin and it did just that: It wouldn't lay flat. However, my Ebony Calfskin edition laid flat right out of the box. The Ebony Calfskin is so much more flexible, softer and overall, feels way more durable in the hand.

Anyhow, on a side note for the commentators above, I replaced the two, very cheap, short, 2" black ribbons on my Tyndale Select NLT Ebony Calfskin with 3 longer, 4" red ribbons. The 'red on black' is AWESOME! Below is a link to view the pics. Enjoy...

http://kowalker.com/2010/02/06/tyndale-nlt-in-calfskin-with-3-red-ribbons/

dale

These appear to be out of print now...that was fast!

Does anybody know how to get ahold of one of these? I have looked high and low and can't find one. I suppose it would be a better investment to just wait on the Allan NLT next year but would love to have one of these Tyndale editions....

Brian Davis

Dale, I have one that I would be willing to send to a good home. Mahogany. mashmouth(at)gmail(dot)com

dale

excellent...i just sent you an email brian...

Ryan

I believe R.L. Allan will be binding the next run of these. They said they were doing the slimline reference edition, which I believe is this text block.

MIchael Smith

No I think the slim line is smaller then this edition, I have the first edition allan bound and it's print size was around 8 pt I think this may be the same print size for the new one Allan will be binding. The select edition has a larger print size and it is calfskin.

Chris

Does anyone around have one of these available? If so, I would be interested? Thanks.

chris(dot)fodera(at)gmail(dot)com

bill

This might have been the only NLT 2nd Ed with a sewn text block! Luckily that's changing:

http://tyndale.com/Premium-Value-Compact-Slimline-Bible-NLT/9781414364636

Granted the covers are just plastic, but the edges are gilded and the textblocks are sewn so they're ideal candidates for re-bind. I note the dimensions and page count of the large print edition are quite similar to this out-of-print "Select" edition...I have one on order.

CBD only has page samples for the "personal" size edition, but it appears to be an all-black text as well, similar to the "Mosaic" but without references.

bill

Well my Premium Value Large Print Slimline Bible NLTse certainly arrived quickly. It's pretty much a one-trick pony. The sewn textblock is nice, and I like the all-black text, but that's about all to commend it. The cover has to be the crummiest artificial leather I've ever seen, although it does look durable. The paper is pretty poor, hardly worth a $100 re-bind. It has a newsprint feel, and the ink just doesn't make a good, sharp impression. Comparing it to my glued Premium Slimline [end-of-verse] Ref Ed Large Print proves there's a lot more to a book than sewing. The tactile feel of the old TuTone is much better, the paper and ink is much lovelier to touch and see, and it's a bit wider, so that there's an extra word-per-line in each of the double-columns, which makes it read better. It's the same layout as the Select that Mark reviews above, and possibly the same paper, just the signatures get sewn in the Select and get cut and glued in the Premiums which saves a few seconds of manufacturing time.

But the biggest issue with my new $15 bible is the way the text is printed all the way to the bottom and outer edges. I'm not kidding, there's only ~1/4" of margin. (Zondervan does this with their cheap bibles too--like they're trying to save every last penny of paper.) I think the ESV legacy and the hype about Perfect Renaissance Layouts, etc has made me appreciate the importance of sizable outer margins in "framing" text, away from distractions etc.

I'm not one to write in Bibles. I just know that it's easier reading my old Premium Thinline with half-inch margins even if the inner text is somewhat rolled into a glued gutter. (Both are 9.5-10 point type and the fonts are similar enough to be a matter of taste.)

Still, it's far from being a great Bible. But for those of us who need bigger than Pitt Minion type size, there's not a lot of choices out there. Why can't Tyndale make a NLTse like the 1st editions which were available direct from Tyndale in some lovely leather covers, comfortable margins, excellent paper & ink, etc? Or just re-release this "select" edition Mark reviewed 3 years ago?

OTOH, if you like the NLTse and you just want one to keep in the glovebox, it's hard to beat these new sewn bibles for the price!

Dustin B.

Mark, what brand is your leather bag? And where did you get it?

J. Mark Bertrand

The bag in that photo was by a brand called Medium -- as far as I know, it no longer exists. Just a standard messenger-style bag in leather.

Private Account

Re: But for those of us who need bigger than Pitt Minion type size, there's not a lot of choices out there...

So true. In fact, THERE AREN'T ANY. As a pastor of a large church that is contemplating switching exclusively to the NLT because of its clarity and accessibility, I have been shocked to discover that there is not a single premium version available that is appropriate as a pulpit bible. No not one. Although the Pitt Minion is a fine Bible for personal use, the fine print and tight text block does not lend itself to use in the pulpit. And, the slimline version being proposed by Allan is hardly any better. For this purpose, the NLT select was a decent choice, but is no longer available. Frankly, what I'd really like to see is a good basic Allan or Cambridge Bible available in a reasonable 9-11 pt. font.

Allan, Cambridge, Tyndale... PLEASE! Those of us who make a living using the NLT need a good basic NLT Bible in a readable text and a quality binding. Surely someone can profit by this void in the NLT line up.

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  • J. Mark Bertrand is the author of Back on Murder, Pattern of Wounds, and the forthcoming Nothing to Hide, crime novels featuring Houston homicide detective Roland March. He has an MFA in Creative Writing from the University of Houston and lived in the city for fifteen years. After one hurricane too many, he and his wife moved to South Dakota. Mark has been arrested for a crime he didn't commit, was the foreman of a hung jury in Houston, and after relocating served on the jury that acquitted Vinnie Jones of assault. In 1972, he won an honorable mention in a child modeling contest, but pursued writing instead.

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