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May 31, 2009

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Comments

David Dewey

When I enquired about the ESV3, Allan's also told me that it lacks the maps found in the ESV1. And I really like to have maps in a Bible. However, from your photos I think the antique brown colour is preferable to both the tan and darker brown ESV1s. But as I have one of the original tan Allan's ESV, I'm still trying to wonder if I can justify either the new dark brown ESV 1 or the antique brown ESV3. Unfortunately, the pound/dollar exchange is going against us in the UK.

David

Order directly from R. L. Allan in Glasgow then: http://www.bibles-direct.com/

Glen

Awaiting the arrival of my ESV3 to compare it to my ESV1. If it's anything like you say in your review, the ESV3 will be my carry-everywhere version. Anyway, I'm sure it will outshine anything Cambridge presently has to offer.

RP

How does the ESV3 compare to the ESV2 in terms of the leather cover? I have an ESV2 with the grained goatskin and found it to be quite stiff at first (although I will say it has broken-in well after just 4 months of use). Not having maps in the ESV3 would be a negative for me as my ESV2 doesn't have maps either and I found myself consulting a study aid frequently when reading throught the Pentateuch and the conquest of Canaan.

Blair Paterson

I know this question does not relate to the specific bible in question, but more of the translation: ESV. I am quite comfortable with the NRSV - could you assist me and explain what the difference is between the two translations. Is it only philosophical/theological differences, or are the actual translations different. If I am to spend my money on a good bible, I want to know as much as I can from someone who knows a bit about it.

Nick Potratz

Hello Mark (or anyone else who knows), I am wondering about the lining on this edition: is it the usual cheapo plastic-coated paper, or something else perhaps? Is there a board under the leather? If so, how thick?

If you could add a pic or two of the linings that would be great. Heck, lining is half the battle. Thanks!

Chris

Mark, do you know anything about what evangelicalbible.com mentioned in their blog a few months back regarding an upcoming "classic reference ESV" from Allans? Coped below...

"We probably should have been more discreet here. For certain contractual reasons I can not elaborate in detail.
What we can say is that we will have a completely NEW TYPEFACE that will be the best Classic Reference Bible available. It will be a monumental publication since we will have both the best binding as well as the best type face! Of course we will keep you posted!"

David Dewey

Mark, you say in your review of the ESV3 that "the semi-yapp edges from the ESV1 are gone as well, replaced by a more conventional not-quite-flush edge". This certainly seems the case, both from your pwn pictures and those on Allan's website. However, Allan's describe the ESV3 as having semi-yapp pages. I wonder whether there is an agreed definition of a semi-yapp edge. Any thoughts?

David Dewey

One comment asks about the differences between the NRSV and ESV. Going to the relevant websites and reading the translators' introductions is probably the best way to find out. The quick answer, however, is that both are revisions of the Revised Standard Version. The ESV is the more conservative revision, changing less of the text and avoiding gender inclusive language. The NRSV alters more of the RSV text and uses gender inclusive language extensively (though never in relation to God). Editions of the ESV also include cross-references and a concordance; most editions of the NRSV do not. The NRSV often comes with the Apocrypha; only Oxford has an ESV with the Apocrypha. The NRSV is more widely accepted ecumenically and is recommended by many theological colleges; the ESV is perceived mainly as a conservative evangelical translation. Such perceptions, however, are very hard to justify on the basis of translation philosophy: they have more to do with marketing and with who gets signed up to recommend which version. You really have to make your own mind up.

Paul

The ESV is considered an evangelical translation for good reason. It is true that the NRSV and ESV are revisions of the RSV-however I would say substantially different revisions. Gender inclusivity is only one factor. Old Testament prophecies were rendered obscure through NRSV translation (eg. Isaiah 7:14). References to homosexual sin are also obscured in the NRSV translation. (1 Cor. 6:9)
In regards to market share the ESV is now ranked 4th. The Spanish Reina Valera is ranked 10th and the NRSV is not in the top 10-(2007-CBA statistics) The NRSV is used by a small portion of liberal and 'mainline' churches in the US.

The NRSV translators are taken from ranks of liberal Christendom. The ESV translators from conservative Christendom.

The differences are not trivial in my opinion.

Alan

I like the antique brown over the chocolate, although I prefer the tan (which I have) to both. Would you consider the Buffalo Grain leather more durable? I wonder if they might actually do one bound in genuine buffalo. If I were going with a black Bible, I think the natural grain looks better. Black and rugged don't seem to blend very well.

Picture request: Comparison shot of the brown buffalo grain and the brown ESV Pitt Minion.

Ben Ting

I just received my ESV3 Antique Brown. Comparing the brand new Bible with my "yr-old-used" ESV1, there is no comparison in "open flat" category. The well-used-ESV1 wins outright...(only logical.)

And without the semi-yapp, the gilt edge does look dangerously "exposed" to the elements. My advice is, if u gonna buy just 1 ESV only, go for ESV1. As for the end papers, they look similar to those used in my Cambridge Pitt Minion - simple (not cheap), nice & elegant.

Lastly, I wonder when will Allan put back the lined papers as per the "original" ESV1...

Btw, I notice the text block now has the "double stitch" thingy treatment not just on the front, but the back too!

Knight

Great review.

Has anyone looked at Crossway's Calfskin Classic Reference Bibles?

I have been considering saving up for a high quality ESV and I'd like to see a review as detailed as these for that product so I can compare with Allan's offerings.

Thanks.

Steve Robenalt

Knight - I received a Crossway Calfskin when they first came out and can say that the leather cover is great! It's very soft and smooth, but it also shows scratches very easy. What I didn't like was the binding. No better than any of their others in my opinion. It would lay open flat in Gen. or Rev. for example and just felt stiff. I was disappointed.

I now have an Allan's and can say the binding is great, just what I hoped for. There really is no comparison. If you're getting something of this price I would go with Allan's. Great leather cover as well as the best binding. The ESV1 is much softer than the ESV3 by the way. Well worth the difference.

Hope that helps.

Steve

Steve Robenalt

Correction - I meant to say that the Crossway would not lay open flat toward either end of bible.

Steve

Knight

Steve,

Thanks for the note. I have seen some pictures of Crossway's calfskin (http://kowalker.com/2009/03/23/esv-classic-reference-bible-calfskin/) that look pretty good.

My only hangup with Allan's is the Anglicized Text. (i.e.: European spelling of certain words.) Call me picky but I find that annoying.

Steve Robenalt

I believe it is only about a dozen words from what I was told by Allan's. And I haven't really noticed it bothering me. For the price the Allan's is certainly the better bang for your buck. It's really hard to tell until you actually hold both and compare. That's where the binding on the Allan's really shines as well as the ESV1's highland goatskin.

By the way, if you're interested Allan's will be coming out with the PSR Edition in the Fall, but the text will be printed by Crossway and bound by Allan's so it won't be Anglicized.

Knight

Steve,

Thanks for the scoop. This fall is about the time I could afford it anyway so I've got plenty of time to make my decision.

D Johnson

This review and, the Bible it measures, are disappointing. First, let me say that I have no affiliation with any Bible publisher. I honestly don't know how anyone could pick up this book and think that the text block is acceptable for this price range. The paper is yellow/creamish and yet is not very opaque. The end result is that there is significant ghosting (you can read the words on the other side of the page) and there is little contrast between the text and the paper itself. The Crossway Classic Reference bible, while not as well bound, is much easier to read...and what is the point of owning a Bible if not to read it?

D Johnson

I should also add that the binding is very nice, very similar to the Cambridge Pitt Minion. I would prefer if "Holy Bible" wasn't printed on the front. Hope this is helpful.

Ryan

I got one of these and really like it. The grain is very attractive. I am not a yapp guy so this edition is great for me. The goatskin is not melt in your hand flexible, but it is nice. It feels really durable, like I could take it anywhere and do anything with it. The bleed through is more than I had hoped, but its not terrible. I bought it for when I have to read and speak in places where the NRSV is not accepted. I am completely satisfied with it.

J.D.

I am by no means a collector of fine Bibles, but I do have a few including a Cambridge Pitt-Minion goatskin NASB, Cambridge Pitt-Minion two-tone fake leather ESV, Cambridge wide margin goatskin NASB, Lockman's In Touch Calfskin NASB, Nelson thinline NKJV, and Oxford KJV, to name a few.

I just received the Antique Brown ESV3 and I am reservedly impressed. I say "reservedly" because I don't get quite the same feeling picking it up as I do, say, with the wide margin goatskin, or Lockman calfskin. That being said, it is also far from the feeling of handling a genuine leather ESV Classic Reference.

The cover is flexible, but not as much as the wide-margin Cambridge goatskin or the Lockman calfskin, but is more flexible than a Pitt-Minion French Moracco cover. The grain and color are unique, and the Bible has a ruggedness to it that is very appealing. It lays open flat when opened to Genesis or Revelation, and all places in between. It is already getting more flexible, and I suspect it will wear-in quite well.

The text block is the perfect size. There is no note-taking room to speak of, but that's not why I bought it. The paper is not a pure white, like on the Nelson thinline, but it certainly doesn't lean to the cream color that I've read about above. There is ghosting from the opposite side of the page, but not any more than I've seen with any other Bible (except the Lockman In Touch, which has very thick paper). I have done a few small underlines with Parker black ballpoint and Fisher black ballpoint. Other than some ghosting, there is no bleed-through.

Here's my bottomline: it's a perfect Bible for sticking in a briefcase, carrying to church, and traveling - the "Daily Reading Bible" - which is what I have looked for. I don't feel like I have to baby it, either because it is too nice, or too cheap. It's a good size, not to large, and not too thick.

Robert

About a year-and-a-half ago I purchased a fine highland goatskin ESV1 (Anglicized) from Allan's, and was pleased as punch! Not long thereafter, after about 3 full seconds of impressive gymnastics involving a glass of water and two or three pieces of living room furniture, I spilled water all over it.

Naturally I assumed that this is just my problem, and that it's no concern of Allan's. I still used it daily, but it was heartbreaking every time I did so, holding such a wonderful Allan Bible that had been damaged like this. So against all hope, all reason and every principle of business sense and capitalistic enterprise, I wrote Allan's in the spirit of something or other and asked if they would consider replacing it.

They've done me one better. Since they're out of ESV1s right now they are sending me a complimentary ESV3!!

An organization like this deserves our ongoing support, patronage, and informal advertising to friends, families and colleagues. Long live R.L. Allan!


Chris Bloom

It might be of interest to y'all that evangelicalbible.com has their ESV3s and NIVC3s -- all buffalo goatskin -- on clearance right now, in order to make room for the new NASBs and ESV1s.

Raymond Sloat

I just recieved a black ESV3 and I hate to say it but feel that I have just spent $35 more than I should have for a comparable Bible. Even on sale I paid $87 plus shipping and that cost puts this Bible is in the same price category as the Lockman NASB in premium calfskin. The later of which is 10X the quality of the ESV3 at approximatly the same cost.

My recommendation would be to save up until you can purchase the ESV1 unless portabitility is your driving factor on chosing the ESV3. I am planning on keeping the Bible and will give an update on how it holds up to daily use.

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  • J. Mark Bertrand is the author of Back on Murder, Pattern of Wounds, and the forthcoming Nothing to Hide, crime novels featuring Houston homicide detective Roland March. He has an MFA in Creative Writing from the University of Houston and lived in the city for fifteen years. After one hurricane too many, he and his wife moved to South Dakota. Mark has been arrested for a crime he didn't commit, was the foreman of a hung jury in Houston, and after relocating served on the jury that acquitted Vinnie Jones of assault. In 1972, he won an honorable mention in a child modeling contest, but pursued writing instead.

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