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September 06, 2011

Comments

Ryan

I have only had this problem with 1 Bible, but on that Bible I attributed it to the size of the signatures. They have to be at least 120 pages. They are far to big, and especially toward the middle of the signatures, the pages crinkle. I wonder if signature size could be a factor.

bill

Good point, Ryan, and I suspect the details of HOW the signatures are folded prior to sewing is important as well. When making multiple folds on a sheet of paper, I'd think you'd always want to keep one side "free" the downside of which is more variation in the relative size of the margins after trimming. However, trying to "overconstrain" the signature by keeping the pages more tightly coupled together while folding gives added creasing/crinkle.

One reason larger books (>9x12) cost more is that you get fewer pages per standard-width roll paper, in other words, fewer pages per signature, like the difference between 32 pages per signature and the more normal 64. But the large print versions usually "handle" a lot nicer because of it. I agree, a book with 120-page signatures must feel awful!

Mark S.

I have two copies of the Allan NRSV. In one, the crinkling is tight, loud, and extends out to make the edges of the paper wavy. In the other, there is some minor crinkling in the gutter though it doesn't get as far as the inner text.

In corresponding with Nicholas Gray of RL Allan after purchasing the first copy, he indicated that this was the result of the paper grain. There must be other factors, though, given the difference between the two copies of the same edition.

bill

Just to be clear, just because modern typesetting technology permits someone to produce a book bound cross-grain, actually doing so seems to me to be a blatant instance of malpractice and demonstrates major ignorance of the book-binding craft. For someone to admit their product was bound cross-grain sounds tantamount to saying the product is clearly a "seconds" and should be fully refunded or highly discounted. Right?

Pastor Nathan

I bought a Bible form LCBP, the Large print, and it had substantial gutter crinkle problems. I have used it moderately and it still does. I seem to have this problem with Bible from LCBP.

Simon Pyett

Interesting piece Mark, thank you. I purchased a PSR ESV from Allan's and had some issues with some quite bad crinkling. As you thumb through the Bible you can see and feel some quite big chunks of the text block move, rather than the pages 'flowing' smoothly. When you run your hand along the gutter you can feel and hear quite audibly the crinkle. Allan's were good and replaced it with another copy which seemed much better, so for what it's worth I agree with Mark S when he says "There must be other factors, though, given the difference between the two copies of the same edition". At the least it might suggest that some printers pay no attention at all to the orientation of the grain as it varies within print runs of the same edition.

Aristarco Palacios

Based on experience binding against the grain or "perpendicular to the fiber", I think this is exactly what causes the wavy gutter AND the stiff pages you show in the last pic. You can even see how the pages are warped giving away the fiber direction (or grain). Additionaly, a sencond factor that worsens this effect is binding signatures folded against the fiber in high humidity weather. I've folded notebooks in a sunny morning, seen the rain come in the afternoon and watch the signatures wrinkle at night. Binding in a moist environment gives the gutter an appearance just like your pics.
I'm no expert, I can just say what I've seen in my years of hobbyist bookbinder and the "printing and binding season" at my job.
Greetings.

Shedrock

All LCBP Bibles crinkle in the gutter. It is a horrible flaw in their binding.

Chris Dumais

I have just received my brand new RL Allan NASB and Nicholas Gray himself has told me it is called cockling. He deals it, and I quote "do not regard this feature as a fault and as you know every Allan Bible is hand-bound and has its own characteristics." I am very angry I waited 5 months for this kind of quality. He states "The rippling effect you mention is called 'cockling' and happens when a book printed on paper which has the grain direction travelling across the page is sewn-bound". It seem to me if RL Allan stayed away from cheap Chinese paper this would likely not be an issue.

Chris Dumais

Here's a photo of what I mean. http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll318/Aquaneod/C4C6BA98-682F-4616-8990-B5EFE2C75981-215-00000007A76B3AD6.jpg

bill

Chris, I wouldn't blame the paper, Chinese or otherwise, unless the grain of the paper was opposite what was indicated by the manufacturer, and even then a simple tear test would have revealed that. It's the typesetter and printer that printed the signatures in such a way that the final folding and sewing would be against the grain. All the text blocks from the same reel of paper would have the same problem.

I'd say this is like buying directional tires and finding they were installed "backwards"...this is a major screw-up on someone's part.

Wynn

The crinkling/cockling issue with Allan Bibles would perhaps be acceptable except that, from what I've seen, none of the photos of any of their Bibles shows any evidence of cockling. This includes pictures of the NASB SCR that has just recently been released. The copy I received has noticable (and audible) cockling throughout. Images of Allan's various Bibles can be viewed on both their website as well as on EvangelicalBible's website and Facebook page. If crinkling/cockling is indeed fairly common with some versions (such as the NASB), as I've read on several different sites, why do no photos show it?

bill

Wynn,
Could some of this be due to shipments in wet Winter weather? Even if if doesn't sit out on your porch for a day, who knows what weather a package sees along the way to one's house? Hate to be a Grinch, but I'm not sure this is a good time of year to buy a high-end Bible from anything other than a brick-and-mortar outfit.

Sandi Lewis

@ Wynn, Two weeks ago I also purchased the NASB SCR from EvangelicalBible and my copy also has the cockling. If you look at the pics from EB you will see the cockling on the blue copy. I just contacted Nicholas Gray from Allan's and received his response today which he said that all NASB's have this issue. My question to this cockling issue is whether or not this will ever smooth out after time & use? Nevertheless, I love my NASB SCR from Allan. I simply have chosen to not let this be an issue for me. I still have God's Word in full without any printing flaws which is the most important thing in my opinion. The references & concordance found within it are great resources - that is sufficient for me. I figure, as long as we live in an imperfect world we will never find a "perfect" copy of God's Word. We must wait until we look into the face of Christ in Heaven for that.

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